Without basic UI controls such as text box, drop down list, radio button list, data table, etc., Silverlight is completely unusable for what I want to use it for. I want to use it for data driven applications that make use of web services. I have no use
for audio or video or the other more wiz bang features. This is not a Flash killer. Not yet anyway. It's looking like it'll be several years before the technology will be mature enough to use if it doesn't even have the most fundamental UI elements in it.
Also, it crashed on me in Firefox on Mac OS X within a minute of use. It's going to need to match Flash in terms of stability. Stable only in IE on Windows isn't going to cut it.
1.1a already includes a couple of controls, but for 1.0 I've now started the process of making some of my own.
I expect a lot of people will be making easy to implement UI controls, so it'll just be a matter of time before you can download and use the ones that you like.
Without basic UI controls such as text box, drop down list, radio button list, data table, etc., Silverlight is completely unusable for what I want to use it for. I want to use it for data driven applications that make use of web services. I have no use
for audio or video or the other more wiz bang features. This is not a Flash killer. Not yet anyway. It's looking like it'll be several years before the technology will be mature enough to use if it doesn't even have the most fundamental UI elements in it.
Also, it crashed on me in Firefox on Mac OS X within a minute of use. It's going to need to match Flash in terms of stability. Stable only in IE on Windows isn't going to cut it.
1.0 is a Beta, 1.1 is an Alpha. Isn't it a bit premature to be complaining about stability?
The .NET Addict
http://dotnetaddict.dotnetdevelopersjournal.com
I'm assuming they'll iron out the stability issues. However, the lack of basic controls means I won't be using this anytime soon. My guess is that it'll be several years before it's in a usable state. Look how long it's taken Microsoft to get an ORM out
the door. They still haven't implemented the provider model that allows LINQ to SQL to use databases other than SQL Server. It also lacks basic mappings such as many-to-many that pretty every other ORM supports. Silverlight appears to have the same issues.
In the long run, it can fundamentally change the way we develop applications for the better. The problem is that it isn't fully baked yet and I don't believe it will be for several years. The notion of having to use third-party controls for something as simple
as a text box is pretty ridiculus IMHO. This isn't going to "kill" Flash anytime soon.
Basic controls are available as a sample with the 1.1 Alpha, and they will be part of the final release of 1.1. The only reason they aren't included now is they are trying to decide which basic controls to create - its a balancing act of keeping the Silverlight
download as small as possible while still providing developers with the controls they need.
During MIX '07 they specifically asked developers to tell them which controls they thought were necessary for Silverlight to be viable.
The .NET Addict
http://dotnetaddict.dotnetdevelopersjournal.com
I'm assuming they'll iron out the stability issues. However, the lack of basic controls means I won't be using this anytime soon. My guess is that it'll be several years before it's in a usable state. Look how long it's taken Microsoft to get an ORM out
the door. They still haven't implemented the provider model that allows LINQ to SQL to use databases other than SQL Server. It also lacks basic mappings such as many-to-many that pretty every other ORM supports. Silverlight appears to have the same issues.
In the long run, it can fundamentally change the way we develop applications for the better. The problem is that it isn't fully baked yet and I don't believe it will be for several years. The notion of having to use third-party controls for something as simple
as a text box is pretty ridiculus IMHO. This isn't going to "kill" Flash anytime soon.
Also, you can use an HTML text box and manipulate it from the code-behind if you don't feel like using the sample text box or rolling your own.
The .NET Addict
http://dotnetaddict.dotnetdevelopersjournal.com
I'm assuming they'll iron out the stability issues. However, the lack of basic controls means I won't be using this anytime soon. My guess is that it'll be several years before it's in a usable state. Look how long it's taken Microsoft to get an ORM out
the door. They still haven't implemented the provider model that allows LINQ to SQL to use databases other than SQL Server. It also lacks basic mappings such as many-to-many that pretty every other ORM supports. Silverlight appears to have the same issues.
In the long run, it can fundamentally change the way we develop applications for the better. The problem is that it isn't fully baked yet and I don't believe it will be for several years. The notion of having to use third-party controls for something as simple
as a text box is pretty ridiculus IMHO. This isn't going to "kill" Flash anytime soon.
Lucky for you that a text box control is available in 1.1a then.
In regard to the whole eco system of tools and services available to feed Silverlight with, SL is already years ahead of Flash and it isn't even 1.0 yet.
We'll see how it all works out, but it's pretty silly to say that SL won't be competing because it's missing a text box control.
If you look at the Widget sets for Flash, they are implemented in ActionScript on top of the Flash core library that does similar things as Silverlight with respect to lines, fills etc. All Flash widgets are build up using these primitive operations. Due
to the usage of ActionScript, the performance of these controls is sub-optimal, although the new Flash 9 version solved a lot of the performance issues due to the new JIT compiler included in this version.
Silverlight is very similar to WPF, and you already see loads of control makers jumping on the WPF controls bandwagon. It wan't take long before they jump the Silverlight bandwagon as well, because Silverlight will get way more exposure than WPF (I think).
One of the control builders is already providing a set of controls to get started with. Have a look at
http://www.telerik.com/products/silverlight/overview.aspx.
Why worry about constraining the download to only 2 MB, when the user, if they are running Windows, has to download hundreds of MBs if not GBs of patches via Windows Update already? Running Windows without a high-speed Internet connection is nearly impossible
if you want to keep your system up to date. I'm sure there are plenty of developers out there who feel as I do that having basic UI controls is a necessity not a nicety. Would they really increase the download size that much? Having to rely on third party
controls for something so fundamental seems pretty crazy to me.
What requirements do you specifically have for controls such as a textbox and button? Do you want richer controls than the ones that are part of the HTML DOM? Or do you simply want direct wrappers for those elements?
jemiller
Member
445 Points
237 Posts
Unusable without basic UI controls
May 04, 2007 04:25 PM | LINK
Without basic UI controls such as text box, drop down list, radio button list, data table, etc., Silverlight is completely unusable for what I want to use it for. I want to use it for data driven applications that make use of web services. I have no use for audio or video or the other more wiz bang features. This is not a Flash killer. Not yet anyway. It's looking like it'll be several years before the technology will be mature enough to use if it doesn't even have the most fundamental UI elements in it. Also, it crashed on me in Firefox on Mac OS X within a minute of use. It's going to need to match Flash in terms of stability. Stable only in IE on Windows isn't going to cut it.
m3taverse
Member
186 Points
88 Posts
Re: Unusable without basic UI controls
May 04, 2007 08:25 PM | LINK
1.1a already includes a couple of controls, but for 1.0 I've now started the process of making some of my own.
I expect a lot of people will be making easy to implement UI controls, so it'll just be a matter of time before you can download and use the ones that you like.
DotNetAddict
Member
80 Points
55 Posts
Re: Unusable without basic UI controls
May 04, 2007 08:30 PM | LINK
1.0 is a Beta, 1.1 is an Alpha. Isn't it a bit premature to be complaining about stability?
http://dotnetaddict.dotnetdevelopersjournal.com
jemiller
Member
445 Points
237 Posts
Re: Unusable without basic UI controls
May 04, 2007 08:45 PM | LINK
I'm assuming they'll iron out the stability issues. However, the lack of basic controls means I won't be using this anytime soon. My guess is that it'll be several years before it's in a usable state. Look how long it's taken Microsoft to get an ORM out the door. They still haven't implemented the provider model that allows LINQ to SQL to use databases other than SQL Server. It also lacks basic mappings such as many-to-many that pretty every other ORM supports. Silverlight appears to have the same issues. In the long run, it can fundamentally change the way we develop applications for the better. The problem is that it isn't fully baked yet and I don't believe it will be for several years. The notion of having to use third-party controls for something as simple as a text box is pretty ridiculus IMHO. This isn't going to "kill" Flash anytime soon.
DotNetAddict
Member
80 Points
55 Posts
Re: Unusable without basic UI controls
May 04, 2007 09:14 PM | LINK
Basic controls are available as a sample with the 1.1 Alpha, and they will be part of the final release of 1.1. The only reason they aren't included now is they are trying to decide which basic controls to create - its a balancing act of keeping the Silverlight download as small as possible while still providing developers with the controls they need.
During MIX '07 they specifically asked developers to tell them which controls they thought were necessary for Silverlight to be viable.
http://dotnetaddict.dotnetdevelopersjournal.com
DotNetAddict
Member
80 Points
55 Posts
Re: Unusable without basic UI controls
May 04, 2007 09:15 PM | LINK
Also, you can use an HTML text box and manipulate it from the code-behind if you don't feel like using the sample text box or rolling your own.
http://dotnetaddict.dotnetdevelopersjournal.com
m3taverse
Member
186 Points
88 Posts
Re: Unusable without basic UI controls
May 04, 2007 09:43 PM | LINK
Lucky for you that a text box control is available in 1.1a then.
In regard to the whole eco system of tools and services available to feed Silverlight with, SL is already years ahead of Flash and it isn't even 1.0 yet.
We'll see how it all works out, but it's pretty silly to say that SL won't be competing because it's missing a text box control.
svdoever
Member
16 Points
10 Posts
Re: Unusable without basic UI controls
May 04, 2007 11:55 PM | LINK
If you look at the Widget sets for Flash, they are implemented in ActionScript on top of the Flash core library that does similar things as Silverlight with respect to lines, fills etc. All Flash widgets are build up using these primitive operations. Due to the usage of ActionScript, the performance of these controls is sub-optimal, although the new Flash 9 version solved a lot of the performance issues due to the new JIT compiler included in this version.
Silverlight is very similar to WPF, and you already see loads of control makers jumping on the WPF controls bandwagon. It wan't take long before they jump the Silverlight bandwagon as well, because Silverlight will get way more exposure than WPF (I think). One of the control builders is already providing a set of controls to get started with. Have a look at http://www.telerik.com/products/silverlight/overview.aspx.
Serge van den Oever [Macaw]
http://weblogs.asp.net/soever
jemiller
Member
445 Points
237 Posts
Re: Unusable without basic UI controls
May 05, 2007 12:44 AM | LINK
Why worry about constraining the download to only 2 MB, when the user, if they are running Windows, has to download hundreds of MBs if not GBs of patches via Windows Update already? Running Windows without a high-speed Internet connection is nearly impossible if you want to keep your system up to date. I'm sure there are plenty of developers out there who feel as I do that having basic UI controls is a necessity not a nicety. Would they really increase the download size that much? Having to rely on third party controls for something so fundamental seems pretty crazy to me.
WilcoB
Participant
786 Points
146 Posts
Re: Unusable without basic UI controls
May 05, 2007 01:51 AM | LINK
What requirements do you specifically have for controls such as a textbox and button? Do you want richer controls than the ones that are part of the HTML DOM? Or do you simply want direct wrappers for those elements?