yes, i'm with Yasser on this one. it's too restrictive and we're just starting to get ridiculous with all this security thingy. after all, if we continue like this, then maybe it's safer if we just don't turn on our computer...
I just ran into this, it's pretty major, so basically we can't have any application that accepts text input in full screen mode. I was pretty shocked when I had this issue and read that it's by design.
I know this thread has petered out, but I would like the opportunity to argue the case for adding keyboard support in full screen mode.
First, I want to make it clear that I recognize the clear value that disabling keyboard input brings. It completely prevents a comprehensive phishing technique which would be particularly difficult for a reasonable person to detect and avoid.
That being said, I urge the Silverlight development team to reconsider the many alternative solutions to this problems as the cost of the current solution may not yet be clear. The gaming audience for Silverlight may well be the force that drives this product
into mainstream usage as it touches nearly the entire internet audience. Just look at a site like PopCap.com and you will see an increadibly popular site who's audience covers men and women of all ages. It goes without saying that Silverlight brings many
more things to the table for game developers than flash, yet to the end user the two tools may seem interchangable. Fullscreen gaming support, ie keyboard support, can be an important tool in pushing Silverlight into the lead.
As for the security threat, a number of users have suggested viable alternatives in this thread, all of which were ignored. I respect your hesitance to commit to wild changes suggested by a handful of uninformed testers; however, that does not deny the
inherent merits of the alternatives, and I would like to see them addressed.
Rely on the current message shown when the site goes to full screen to inform users that they are no longer using a browser.
Enhance the current message, possibly by requiring the user to click a button, thereby increasing the change they might realize something is amiss
Add an option that can be turned on to support full screen. This may be the strongest suggestion that was not addressed, as it caters to both needs. The option could be available only by right clicking on the screen and following a context menu link,
there by increasing the difficulty for phishers to "trick" users into mistakenly consenting.
Add a built in prompt that asks the user how they would like to proceed. This could be a great foundation for how to handle permissions around activating advanced networking, microphones, video cameras, file uploads and other advanced features that may
be critical in the future. You could even couple this with a certificate program to ensure the same trust and authenticity that have existed on the web.
I understand that all of these options create the potential for abuse, but as some posters have already mentioned, security-functionality trade-offs are inevitable for any internet based application. Simply saying that security will decrease is not a complete
argument against adding functionality. Instead, those increased risks must be contrasted to the gains, the ability for users to detect and avoid the risks and current assumptions as to the average users needs for the tool. I hope that this can begin a more
exploratory investigation towards the option of adding keyboard support to fullscreen.
As testers, we always appreciate being included in the process, even in small ways. Seeing an Silverlight rep post that there may be value in adding socket support was increadibly rewarding, and even if no action will be taken on this matter, hearing the
same level of though put into responses is appreciated greatly.
I just started researching this subject as I just recently started diving in to Silverlight 1.1.
I plan to make games on the platform using my Farseer Physics Engine. I agree 150% with lameducks post above. There must be a middle ground that would allow users the option of going fullscreen with keyboard support.
Disabling keyboard support in fullscreen protects the few who might be fooled by a spoof site by punishing the many who would like to develop and play games (not to mention other apps) in full screen.
You can go full screen with the browser itself. I'm not sure why that is considered secure, yet going full screen with Silverlight isn't. I suppose a work around is to take the browser full screen, and resize the canvas accordingly.
Because if the browser is full screen, it will have focus, you wouldn't be able to have a hidden window behind it that is grabbing keypresses.
As for a solution, how about allowing a way to specify whether to enable keyboard or not in full screen, and if set to true, Silverlight could pop up an extra prompt or warning as was suggested earlier, or even continuously display a banner at the top of
the fullscreen control which alerts the user to the fact that they are in full screen mode and not to enter any sensitive information.
I'm not understanding. Obviously a full screen silverlight application has the focus too. Is it the silverlight / javascript interaction that would allow keyboard strokes to affect the covered browser page from which it was created? Couldn't it use the
same protection IFRAMEs employ when spawned from different sites? In other words, so what if I can spoof (no pun intended) my own web page. It is not like I can invoke my silverlight application to cover over bankofamerica.com, and then start vectoring keyboard input
to it. Any further clarification appreciated...
It seems the potential for abuse stems primarily from being able to set the root canvas transparent, and then capturing keystrokes. When going to full screen, why not just put a black background behind the root canvas? I can't really think of a scenario
where I'd want to interact with non-silverlight elements(exposed via transparency) anyway. I'm not sure about other people's mileage, but the only silverlight/html interaction I've done was to read the contents of a textbox, and once silverlight has a textbox
control, I'd be getting rid of that. Ultimately, I'm guessing that applications that want to go full screen, want to paint the full canvas, and wouldn't care if there was a black background underneath the visual root.
naveenkushwaha
Member
52 Points
28 Posts
Re: Re: Re: keyboard is not working with full screen
Aug 27, 2007 11:48 AM | LINK
hey yasser
that is what i want to say...
but justin is not ready to listen anything....
after too many R&D i found that it is not possible in silverlight
i's asking abt the alternate way to solve this problem
coz anyhow i've to do it...
whether i do it with c# or javascript...
thanx
naveen kushwaha
luisabreu
Participant
1676 Points
612 Posts
Re: Re: Re: keyboard is not working with full screen
Aug 27, 2007 08:05 PM | LINK
hello guys,
yes, i'm with Yasser on this one. it's too restrictive and we're just starting to get ridiculous with all this security thingy. after all, if we continue like this, then maybe it's safer if we just don't turn on our computer...
Bill Reiss
Contributor
4973 Points
947 Posts
Re: Re: Re: keyboard is not working with full screen
Sep 13, 2007 05:14 AM | LINK
I just ran into this, it's pretty major, so basically we can't have any application that accepts text input in full screen mode. I was pretty shocked when I had this issue and read that it's by design.
Bill Reiss, Coauthor of Hello! Silverlight
My blog
thelameduck
Member
8 Points
5 Posts
Re: Re: Re: keyboard is not working with full screen
Sep 14, 2007 08:58 PM | LINK
I know this thread has petered out, but I would like the opportunity to argue the case for adding keyboard support in full screen mode.
First, I want to make it clear that I recognize the clear value that disabling keyboard input brings. It completely prevents a comprehensive phishing technique which would be particularly difficult for a reasonable person to detect and avoid.
That being said, I urge the Silverlight development team to reconsider the many alternative solutions to this problems as the cost of the current solution may not yet be clear. The gaming audience for Silverlight may well be the force that drives this product into mainstream usage as it touches nearly the entire internet audience. Just look at a site like PopCap.com and you will see an increadibly popular site who's audience covers men and women of all ages. It goes without saying that Silverlight brings many more things to the table for game developers than flash, yet to the end user the two tools may seem interchangable. Fullscreen gaming support, ie keyboard support, can be an important tool in pushing Silverlight into the lead.
As for the security threat, a number of users have suggested viable alternatives in this thread, all of which were ignored. I respect your hesitance to commit to wild changes suggested by a handful of uninformed testers; however, that does not deny the inherent merits of the alternatives, and I would like to see them addressed.
I understand that all of these options create the potential for abuse, but as some posters have already mentioned, security-functionality trade-offs are inevitable for any internet based application. Simply saying that security will decrease is not a complete argument against adding functionality. Instead, those increased risks must be contrasted to the gains, the ability for users to detect and avoid the risks and current assumptions as to the average users needs for the tool. I hope that this can begin a more exploratory investigation towards the option of adding keyboard support to fullscreen.
As testers, we always appreciate being included in the process, even in small ways. Seeing an Silverlight rep post that there may be value in adding socket support was increadibly rewarding, and even if no action will be taken on this matter, hearing the same level of though put into responses is appreciated greatly.
Thank you
naveenkushwaha
Member
52 Points
28 Posts
Re: Re: keyboard is not working with full screen
Oct 01, 2007 09:28 AM | LINK
i want to install silverlight on windows 2000.
i search for it on the google...
from there i got the answer on the following link...
http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1189315&SiteID=1
but my problem is not solved by approaching according to their direction...
they were telling about a dll i.e. agctrl.dll
but i won't be able to find "agctrl.dll".
lJeffWeber
Member
144 Points
95 Posts
Re: Re: Re: Re: keyboard is not working with full screen
Oct 22, 2007 12:50 AM | LINK
I just started researching this subject as I just recently started diving in to Silverlight 1.1.
I plan to make games on the platform using my Farseer Physics Engine. I agree 150% with lameducks post above. There must be a middle ground that would allow users the option of going fullscreen with keyboard support.
Disabling keyboard support in fullscreen protects the few who might be fooled by a spoof site by punishing the many who would like to develop and play games (not to mention other apps) in full screen.
Please rethink this Microsoft.
Long time backer of MS Technologies,
Farseer Games - Physics Games for the Web
Farseer Physics Engine - 2D Physics Engine for Silverlight and XNA
Spofford
Member
66 Points
24 Posts
Re: Re: Re: Re: keyboard is not working with full screen
Oct 23, 2007 09:00 PM | LINK
You can go full screen with the browser itself. I'm not sure why that is considered secure, yet going full screen with Silverlight isn't. I suppose a work around is to take the browser full screen, and resize the canvas accordingly.
Bill Reiss
Contributor
4973 Points
947 Posts
Re: Re: Re: Re: keyboard is not working with full screen
Oct 23, 2007 09:11 PM | LINK
Because if the browser is full screen, it will have focus, you wouldn't be able to have a hidden window behind it that is grabbing keypresses.
As for a solution, how about allowing a way to specify whether to enable keyboard or not in full screen, and if set to true, Silverlight could pop up an extra prompt or warning as was suggested earlier, or even continuously display a banner at the top of the fullscreen control which alerts the user to the fact that they are in full screen mode and not to enter any sensitive information.
Bill Reiss, Coauthor of Hello! Silverlight
My blog
Spofford
Member
66 Points
24 Posts
Re: Re: Re: Re: keyboard is not working with full screen
Oct 23, 2007 09:35 PM | LINK
I'm not understanding. Obviously a full screen silverlight application has the focus too. Is it the silverlight / javascript interaction that would allow keyboard strokes to affect the covered browser page from which it was created? Couldn't it use the same protection IFRAMEs employ when spawned from different sites? In other words, so what if I can spoof (no pun intended) my own web page. It is not like I can invoke my silverlight application to cover over bankofamerica.com, and then start vectoring keyboard input to it. Any further clarification appreciated...
jackbond
Contributor
5812 Points
1559 Posts
Re: Re: Re: Re: keyboard is not working with full screen
Oct 23, 2007 09:38 PM | LINK
It seems the potential for abuse stems primarily from being able to set the root canvas transparent, and then capturing keystrokes. When going to full screen, why not just put a black background behind the root canvas? I can't really think of a scenario where I'd want to interact with non-silverlight elements(exposed via transparency) anyway. I'm not sure about other people's mileage, but the only silverlight/html interaction I've done was to read the contents of a textbox, and once silverlight has a textbox control, I'd be getting rid of that. Ultimately, I'm guessing that applications that want to go full screen, want to paint the full canvas, and wouldn't care if there was a black background underneath the visual root.
Khet - The first Silverlight multiplayer game
Zork I: The Great Underground Empire