dude, it is literally a 10 minute press spot where they talk about a few things. They mention that apps can be build using an HTML 5 model. Now lets just put aside the fact that this was probably just mantioned to position themselves in the iPad/android/playbook
party as not being the "same old windows" and ask yourself something, what does HTML 5 run in? (hmm, well a browser right). Now ask yourself what else can run in HTML 5 on a browser? hmm...Silverlight? Now ask yourself what other desktop widget model is
HTML + Javascript based but you can build using silverlight? hmm...gadgets. Like I said. Stop getting carried away. What you should take out of this post is that MIcrosoft has shown a strong commitment to rejuvinating the antiquated UI model on some level.
Sure it still looks like ugly windows behind the scenes but who knows, perhaps they will build a file-system explorer and skins for other such apps so that on my tablet i dont have to leave the new Operating Environment they have in place. once again, chillax
and wait for PDC. Be happy you dont have to live in a world where Apple is really running things (yikes)
dude, it is literally a 10 minute press spot where they talk about a few things.
Sorry, but your optimism seems unwarranted and my reaction isn't knee jerk. First, the shift in strategy. Then the pathetic first day keynote at Mix. Then a beta release that has almost none of the features that MICROSOFT developers are asking for. Then
Ballmer down playing Silverlight. And now this. It has been clear for quite a while that the OS group avoids .NET. Why isn't Windows 8 a .NET only OS? Why isn't office 100% .NET at this point? .NET was introduced a decade ago. Microsoft used to eat its own
dogfood, it's pathetic that the other divisions are lagging so far behind. And now they're going out of their way to hype up HTML5? At the very least that's yet another data point for people to present as evidence that Microsoft has no strong commitment to
Silverlight. Seriously, would ANYONE be surprised if they sunset it tomorrow? I wouldn't be.
HTML5??? Microsoft isn't eating their own dogfood, they're eating their own vomit.
It may just be a very cool thing if they are brewing a way to utilize html5 + javascript **without us having to mess with javascript** (exactly what ASP.NET does on the client side). But it is NOT cool if .NET is not being fully committed to, and that is
the problem.
Let's make this very clear: The problem is that they said the 'new Windows 8 apps' will be based on Html5 + Javascript, NOT: WPF, Silverlight, and an exciting new app framework we're brewing, based on Html5 + Javascript. Where's .NET in that? That is no
oversight. It is clearly the main thing on their radar screen right now, and that is a big problem.
Jack Bond: on MS Office, no. .NET rocks, but it wasn't ever intended to completely replace all unmanged solutions. Office is an unmanaged beast if there ever was one. While I would love WPF's FlowDocument and RichTextBox to be efficient enough to work for Word,
that is obvioulsy not the case. But especially with the port of VisualStudio to WPF, Microsoft has been 'eating its own dogfood'.
Microsoft may yell and scream about Silverlight all they want but in the end the success or failure of Silverlight may well be determined by developers (Ballmer knows this quite well. Remember the monkey boy dance).
MS has has been on the ropes the last several years. They have clearly taken a defensive, reactive strategy. This may be ok for the short term but it's not going to work for the long term. Someone has to be the leader. Over the long haul the market consolidates
behind a leader. Where I'm going with this is to say that SL and its supporting technologies are a knockout punch. MS needs to quit trying to accomodate the standand and BE the standard. There is a clear niche for SL and MS needs to grow it.
I am a .net developer. I write .net code for a living. I've been using MS products since I was 20, I'm now almost 45. I was an IT manager for over 20 years. Over the course of my career I've been responsible for millions of dollars of revenue for MS. As
a developer I've stuck with MS because honestly I'm too old to change. For several years I was very disapointed with the pace of development at MS. But the last few years MS seems to slowly be getting their act together. We now have LINQ, and Entity Framework
(its getting better, really), and SL. These are awesome technologies! I love them!
But I will tell you this: If I don't see some SERIOUS SL apps being introduced with Windows 8 in the next 60 to 90 days I am going to make a PERSONAL COMMITMENT to abandon every investment I have made in MS (and I have made many) and find another devlopment
platform (I have no idea what it might be). If you write .net code for a living or if you buy MS technologies for your company you need to make the same PERSONAL COMMITMENT and state it here. MS only understands the language of money. Lets speak to Balmer
in words he understands. Enough already.
I still think Silverlight will be on the platform, but when you read stuff like this...
"A Windows 8-based PC is really a new kind of device, one that scales from touch-only small screens to large screens, with or without a keyboard and mouse," the company said. Windows 8 will support traditional desktop apps, and
HTML5 and JavaScript tablet apps that fill the entire screen when launched.
Well, it really makes you wonder. Having said that, HTML/Javascript represents the largest group of developers the world has ever seen, so it opens the door for Microsoft to have a really wide ranging platform.
In short, it's a VERY smart business decision. It will be up to us to deliver what our customers need, and prove our case.
None of us should have a problem with that, it just looks like we don't have the partner we thought we had.
Frankly the "chillax" club doesn't inspire me with confidence.
For college kids with nothing much at stake, who just write occasional fun apps in their spare time, "chillaxing" until PDC/Build might make sense. For professionals with millions of dollars and thousands of hours invested, it's a bit different. "Chillaxing"
can literally cost you your company.
I can spend the next 3 months poking around nervously at my code while I wait for more microsoft press releases, or I can spend the time, for example, rebuilding the kernel of my 100k line c# application in c++ so I can target both android and ios instead.
Am I missing something, or did the latter option just become 10x more attractive?
actually in 1:20 into the video it clearly states that this is an introduction of a new platform for building these kinds of apps. I dont see how that equates to "you cant use silverlight".
@jackbond
this tile UI app they are discussing look to me like a continuation the Gadget story from Vista/Windows 7.
You would not be surprised if sivlerlight was dropped altogether ?!? That statement reveals your line of thinking and argument as completely irrational so I wont engage you beyond this. Consider this however:
1) As i stated in my post. Silverlight RUNS IN HTML and just like you can build gadgets in silverlight I am sure you will be able to build these "apps" in silverlight
2) WP7 requires Silverlight for native applications and Microsoft just spent $9 billion dollars (skype + nokia) on that platform. Niether WP7 nor Silverlight are going anywhere
3) based on previous leaks, windows 8 also introduces a silverlight based app model complete with downloads from the marketplace.
I'll see you at build and tell you "i told you so" there :-)
As can be clearly seen from the demo, native apps and w8 apps run side by side in the start screen. I am also certain there will be a managed API available to us for updating our apps (similar to what windows 8 provides).
But I will tell you this: If I don't see some SERIOUS SL apps being introduced with Windows 8 in the next 60 to 90 days I am going to make a PERSONAL COMMITMENT to abandon every investment I have made in MS (and I have made many) and find another devlopment
platform (I have no idea what it might be).
Good luck. You sound like a spoiled 5 year old. I give you 2 days after adopting the dreadfull eclipse, Flex, or nightmare that is xCode before you come running back. iOS might "look" great but it is horrific to develop against. Horrific. The android
emulator runs like a punishment from hell and the only thing that makes it worth developing is Monodroid in VS.net. Your living in paradise complaining that the steak has too much meat in it. You'll be back ;-)
edwardmoemeka
Member
26 Points
15 Posts
Re: Re: Windows 8 apps going html5, wtf
Jun 02, 2011 04:50 AM | LINK
@sipank + @bitdisa...
dude, it is literally a 10 minute press spot where they talk about a few things. They mention that apps can be build using an HTML 5 model. Now lets just put aside the fact that this was probably just mantioned to position themselves in the iPad/android/playbook party as not being the "same old windows" and ask yourself something, what does HTML 5 run in? (hmm, well a browser right). Now ask yourself what else can run in HTML 5 on a browser? hmm...Silverlight? Now ask yourself what other desktop widget model is HTML + Javascript based but you can build using silverlight? hmm...gadgets. Like I said. Stop getting carried away. What you should take out of this post is that MIcrosoft has shown a strong commitment to rejuvinating the antiquated UI model on some level. Sure it still looks like ugly windows behind the scenes but who knows, perhaps they will build a file-system explorer and skins for other such apps so that on my tablet i dont have to leave the new Operating Environment they have in place. once again, chillax and wait for PDC. Be happy you dont have to live in a world where Apple is really running things (yikes)
jackbond
Contributor
5812 Points
1559 Posts
Re: Re: Windows 8 apps going html5, wtf
Jun 02, 2011 05:21 AM | LINK
Sorry, but your optimism seems unwarranted and my reaction isn't knee jerk. First, the shift in strategy. Then the pathetic first day keynote at Mix. Then a beta release that has almost none of the features that MICROSOFT developers are asking for. Then Ballmer down playing Silverlight. And now this. It has been clear for quite a while that the OS group avoids .NET. Why isn't Windows 8 a .NET only OS? Why isn't office 100% .NET at this point? .NET was introduced a decade ago. Microsoft used to eat its own dogfood, it's pathetic that the other divisions are lagging so far behind. And now they're going out of their way to hype up HTML5? At the very least that's yet another data point for people to present as evidence that Microsoft has no strong commitment to Silverlight. Seriously, would ANYONE be surprised if they sunset it tomorrow? I wouldn't be.
HTML5??? Microsoft isn't eating their own dogfood, they're eating their own vomit.
Khet - The first Silverlight multiplayer game
Zork I: The Great Underground Empire
eclipsoft
Member
44 Points
38 Posts
Re: Re: Windows 8 apps going html5, wtf
Jun 02, 2011 05:48 AM | LINK
It may just be a very cool thing if they are brewing a way to utilize html5 + javascript **without us having to mess with javascript** (exactly what ASP.NET does on the client side). But it is NOT cool if .NET is not being fully committed to, and that is the problem.
Let's make this very clear: The problem is that they said the 'new Windows 8 apps' will be based on Html5 + Javascript, NOT: WPF, Silverlight, and an exciting new app framework we're brewing, based on Html5 + Javascript. Where's .NET in that? That is no oversight. It is clearly the main thing on their radar screen right now, and that is a big problem.
Jack Bond: on MS Office, no. .NET rocks, but it wasn't ever intended to completely replace all unmanged solutions. Office is an unmanaged beast if there ever was one. While I would love WPF's FlowDocument and RichTextBox to be efficient enough to work for Word, that is obvioulsy not the case. But especially with the port of VisualStudio to WPF, Microsoft has been 'eating its own dogfood'.
dotnetextensions.com
samw
Member
164 Points
282 Posts
Re: Re: Windows 8 apps going html5, wtf
Jun 02, 2011 05:51 AM | LINK
Microsoft may yell and scream about Silverlight all they want but in the end the success or failure of Silverlight may well be determined by developers (Ballmer knows this quite well. Remember the monkey boy dance).
MS has has been on the ropes the last several years. They have clearly taken a defensive, reactive strategy. This may be ok for the short term but it's not going to work for the long term. Someone has to be the leader. Over the long haul the market consolidates behind a leader. Where I'm going with this is to say that SL and its supporting technologies are a knockout punch. MS needs to quit trying to accomodate the standand and BE the standard. There is a clear niche for SL and MS needs to grow it.
I am a .net developer. I write .net code for a living. I've been using MS products since I was 20, I'm now almost 45. I was an IT manager for over 20 years. Over the course of my career I've been responsible for millions of dollars of revenue for MS. As a developer I've stuck with MS because honestly I'm too old to change. For several years I was very disapointed with the pace of development at MS. But the last few years MS seems to slowly be getting their act together. We now have LINQ, and Entity Framework (its getting better, really), and SL. These are awesome technologies! I love them!
But I will tell you this: If I don't see some SERIOUS SL apps being introduced with Windows 8 in the next 60 to 90 days I am going to make a PERSONAL COMMITMENT to abandon every investment I have made in MS (and I have made many) and find another devlopment platform (I have no idea what it might be). If you write .net code for a living or if you buy MS technologies for your company you need to make the same PERSONAL COMMITMENT and state it here. MS only understands the language of money. Lets speak to Balmer in words he understands. Enough already.
samcov
Participant
1673 Points
719 Posts
Re: Re: Windows 8 apps going html5, wtf
Jun 02, 2011 05:57 AM | LINK
I still think Silverlight will be on the platform, but when you read stuff like this...
"A Windows 8-based PC is really a new kind of device, one that scales from touch-only small screens to large screens, with or without a keyboard and mouse," the company said. Windows 8 will support traditional desktop apps, and HTML5 and JavaScript tablet apps that fill the entire screen when launched.
Well, it really makes you wonder. Having said that, HTML/Javascript represents the largest group of developers the world has ever seen, so it opens the door for Microsoft to have a really wide ranging platform.
In short, it's a VERY smart business decision. It will be up to us to deliver what our customers need, and prove our case.
None of us should have a problem with that, it just looks like we don't have the partner we thought we had.
samcov
Participant
1673 Points
719 Posts
Re: Re: Re: Windows 8 apps going html5, wtf
Jun 02, 2011 06:01 AM | LINK
BTW, I LOVE Windows 8!
Just because the UI is IE10 based, i.e. HTML/JS/CSS, doesn't mean the apps won't be a lot of things.
This could get exciting!
aaadrian
Member
52 Points
33 Posts
Re: Windows 8 apps going html5, wtf
Jun 02, 2011 06:17 AM | LINK
Frankly the "chillax" club doesn't inspire me with confidence.
For college kids with nothing much at stake, who just write occasional fun apps in their spare time, "chillaxing" until PDC/Build might make sense. For professionals with millions of dollars and thousands of hours invested, it's a bit different. "Chillaxing" can literally cost you your company.
I can spend the next 3 months poking around nervously at my code while I wait for more microsoft press releases, or I can spend the time, for example, rebuilding the kernel of my 100k line c# application in c++ so I can target both android and ios instead. Am I missing something, or did the latter option just become 10x more attractive?
sl.ayer
Participant
1693 Points
288 Posts
Re: Re: Re: Windows 8 apps going html5, wtf
Jun 02, 2011 06:21 AM | LINK
Statement about IE10 being able to run Silverlight is pretty hilarious. I wonder if it will be able to show HTML too.
edwardmoemeka
Member
26 Points
15 Posts
Re: Re: Re: Windows 8 apps going html5, wtf
Jun 02, 2011 06:33 AM | LINK
@eclipsesoft
actually in 1:20 into the video it clearly states that this is an introduction of a new platform for building these kinds of apps. I dont see how that equates to "you cant use silverlight".
@jackbond
this tile UI app they are discussing look to me like a continuation the Gadget story from Vista/Windows 7.
You would not be surprised if sivlerlight was dropped altogether ?!? That statement reveals your line of thinking and argument as completely irrational so I wont engage you beyond this. Consider this however:
1) As i stated in my post. Silverlight RUNS IN HTML and just like you can build gadgets in silverlight I am sure you will be able to build these "apps" in silverlight
2) WP7 requires Silverlight for native applications and Microsoft just spent $9 billion dollars (skype + nokia) on that platform. Niether WP7 nor Silverlight are going anywhere
3) based on previous leaks, windows 8 also introduces a silverlight based app model complete with downloads from the marketplace.
I'll see you at build and tell you "i told you so" there :-)
As can be clearly seen from the demo, native apps and w8 apps run side by side in the start screen. I am also certain there will be a managed API available to us for updating our apps (similar to what windows 8 provides).
edwardmoemeka
Member
26 Points
15 Posts
Re: Re: Windows 8 apps going html5, wtf
Jun 02, 2011 06:42 AM | LINK
Good luck. You sound like a spoiled 5 year old. I give you 2 days after adopting the dreadfull eclipse, Flex, or nightmare that is xCode before you come running back. iOS might "look" great but it is horrific to develop against. Horrific. The android emulator runs like a punishment from hell and the only thing that makes it worth developing is Monodroid in VS.net. Your living in paradise complaining that the steak has too much meat in it. You'll be back ;-)