Programming with .NET - General

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Justification request: Silverlight vs. Flex

jackbond — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:25:09 GMT

Stumbled on something this morning, so I figured I'd stir the pot on this thread a bit.

http://blogs.msdn.com/pfxteam/archive/2009/06/30/9809774.aspx

adobeted:
We are supporting a new green threading and component model with our newer compilers (yes multiple).

Can you give us any timelines for when ActionScript will have support for parallel programming?

Re: Re: Justification request: Silverlight vs. Flex

ULab2.0 — Sun, 15 Mar 2009 16:25:13 GMT

Hmm, so basicly there is nothing that Flash or Flex can notable do better then Silverlight? Things like speed or animation in general to name something, no features they have that Silverlight doesn't (like how Sl has something like Deep Zoom whereas Flash / Flex doesn't).

So when you say it depends to determine to use Flash/Flex or not, it's about what you or the client prefer the most (like installed base) and not about features?

Btw, since I'm already asking, can you tell me what the current installed base is for Silverlight in general? I think the numbers in this thread are outdated and that since SL 2 release it has increased dramatically. Personally it will not effect my decision to work with Silverlight but it would be interesting to know more up to date numbers.

Re: Re: Justification request: Silverlight vs. Flex

MSMossyBlog — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:28:15 GMT

Honestly,

Nothing. As you're asking which is better, coke or pepsi? - it depends is the answer.

This thread needs to move on :) i think we've exhausted this topic beyond the norm.

The reality is in order to accurately compare the said products you need to find a group of people whom know both fluently and can put them through their individual paces approaching healthy amount of industry verticals that one could build against. At the same time you'd then need to ensure they have scaleability attached from 1 to 1million users using the said solutions built per vertical.

Once you establish that, come back to this thread and lets analyze the data. :)

Simply put, the actual answer is - you tell me, you're the one has to figure out how to adopt in the next x number of weeks. Go with what you know and feel comfortable with and doesn't impact your budgets.

Re: Justification request: Silverlight vs. Flex

ULab2.0 — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:00:19 GMT

Hi, this discussion is pretty interesting for the most part.

But I'm just wondering, many posts are focussing on similarities or "Silverlight vs .." pro's and what not. I would like to hear the argument a bit differently.

So, can someone tell me what makes Flash or Flex better then Silverlight?

This is a serious question, and I can't get a good answer when looking online so I'm asking directly :) And please, no need to mention the enormous userbase of Flash / Flex, we all know that and it has been said far enough in this thread already. So, to clarify: not what makes them a better choise, but what makes them better technologies ?

Thanks in advance.

Re: Re: Justification request: Silverlight vs. Flex

WanderlieSilva — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 14:27:02 GMT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ9VHzTMwr8

Re: Re: Re: Justification request: Silverlight vs. Flex

tnylea — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 18:00:20 GMT

I believe the overall advantage of silverlight is the seamless integration with the .Net platform/framework. Many industries have adopted using .NET, many modules and other components previously built would not plug-in well with flex. I am still a strong supporter of Adobe and Actionscript, but technology is ever increasing... Love it or not Microsoft will always try and compete.

http://www.OrangeArcade.com

Re: Re: Justification request: Silverlight vs. Flex

Wardy — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:47:42 GMT

If i understand this right ...

Flash is a runtime that flex builds on top of to provide a development platform
Silverlight is a runtime and platform, the developer builds on top of that

Compatability ...

What is flash / flex compatible with anyway?
Isn't silverlight inherently compatible with everything Microsoft is offering since eveything seems to be .net based these days?

I'm probably just being a little naive here but ...

In silverlight 3 I heard there may be a plan to take silvelright and make it so that it runs without the browser being a requirement much like java does.

So to put things in to context ...

Flash is a runtime that needs to be "hosted" in a browser, (any potential here?)
Silverlight has potential to become executable without anything else on any platform

And one final point ...

Since "statistics" seem to be important in a healthy debate it's worth noting that the "98%" market share that flash has is due to likely 90% + of that being windows installations that came with it installed and Adobe has no quibble with that.

Odd that as soon as there's a slight mention of Microsoft using windows in a way that it sees fit (eg adding silverlight out of the box) there's a problem.

I'm sure i've seen this before ... didn't firefox raise this ... and those realplayer lot moaned about windows media player.

So is it not worth highlighting that without some kind of browser being installed no user would have either silverlight or flash.

And why do linux distros not get sued?

......

Can I sue Microsoft for including flash and pdf support on my windows installation CD? ... after all it's "bad for consumers" and i'm a consumer ...

....

One bad thing about Silverlight though, it's a pain when you expect something you had for years in winforms to be in there and it's not ... but at least the toolkit guys are fixing that :)

So what are adobe doing about the many problems with flash ? ... the usual ... patenting them, that's about all that matters right? ... didn't Microsoft get sued for owning and selling crapware ... so why isn't adobe being sued right now?

Re: Justification request: Silverlight vs. Flex

Padawan — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 23:15:01 GMT

jackbond:
andrew.jackson@centrix.co.uk:
Multi-platform support, all of the organisations I have worked with already have Flash Player deployed and none were prepared to rollout Silverlight and .NET 3.5.

One wonders about the extent of your evaluation if you are under the impression that you need to rollout .NET 3.5 to run Silverlight applications.

Ahh yes, assumptive bias is always nice. I've had a dozen coworkers install SL2 plugins for firefox, but I never heard of them having to install .NET 3.5. Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe they just didn't care and went along with it. Either way, the issue seems hardly substantial to be an issue.

Re: Re: Justification request: Silverlight vs. Flex

Padawan — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 23:09:06 GMT

Sopheap Ly:
For somebody not cool with .NET will definitely have a completely different preference. Flex would be the most ideal platform. Flex will have the shortest learning curve and most productive IDE for them. Their users will enjoy fact that Flex developers created the applications they consume efficiently in their own ways.
For anyone new who is currently venturing into Rich Internet Application. I would suggest diving into both Silverlight and Flex. You have got to experience the technologies yourself to know what is right for you. Whatever you choose won't matter for me, because who knows some day I might need you to work with me

I couldn't agree less. I am an amateur programmer, and the simple fact that .NET is more widely used than "Flex" I would say that learning any .NET interface is more valuable than Flex. In learning some of the .NET options in VB I have that programming in C# is considerably easy once I learn how .NET works as a "tool". Flex, I'm almost positive, would not help me at all in programming java, html, or especially C#, VB, C++, or anything more "severely capable".

Sopheap Ly:
For end users, they can install both Flash and Silverlight runtimes side by side, without even the slightest conflict whatsoever. Even if they have installed both, space consumed is merely under 20MB. The war between Flex and Silverlight really does not matter for user. As long as you can create a killer application, they will go as far as installing runtimes and confirming email addresses just to use it. NBC Olympics is a good example to confirm this when millions did just that to watch the events.

Good point. In the end, if a user is asked to install a free "MS" product, they will likely install it, especially if asked twice or more. The user base for SL will likely grow, and I would think in a few years will be, if not, equal to Flash install bases, simply because "sites use X product", not because "product X is better".

Sopheap Ly:
For Microsoft and Adobe, they will protect their assets by competition. This is good for everyone. The reason you fight for Flex or Silverlight is because of this. You want to take part in protecting their assets for them. You have fun doing it for them. But deep down, you have the fears that your ideal platform would die miserably if the other side wins. The reality is that the collapse of Flash and Silverlight is not foreseenable any time within two decades, as Adobe and Microsoft are currently pumping millions into both technologies. Remember, you and I still have about two decades to bail out.

My bias obviously out front, I believe Flash is still a better edge on SL for graphical presenation. There is not a public solution (I've looked) for alpha channels and transparency graphics compared to Flash applications. This is, in my opinion, the most serious flaw. But the prgrammatic superiousness of SL compared to Flex is probably evident to most people. I mean, C#? Even VB9. Who wouldn't choose a -real- programming language compared to a script-like language?

I'm a newbie to Flex, but the way SL uses .NET makes things far more easier to me, and far more applicable cross-language.

Silverlight also runs several times faster than a Flash app, on anyone's computer. That in itself is cause to work with SL. Bandwidth is rarely an issue now. Processing power is an issue with Flash. The equivilent SL apps I've seen run so much faster than Flash apps, online. The small apps I've built, webpages, with SL run so fast my coworkers can hardly believe it's a website.

Re: Re: Justification request: Silverlight vs. Flex

Padawan — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 22:52:58 GMT

vkj:
By learning Flex, atleast, you will be able to appreciate why it's runtime is on 98% of pc and silverlight is on 2% of pc. Hope this doesn't confuse you.

Mmmm, not sure I agree with that statement.

Your "98%" figure has nothing more to do with anything other than many applications use Flash for many years prior to SL, and absolutely nothing to do with pros or cons.

This is like arguing that IE is better than Opera simply because IE controls (guessing) 60% of browsers while Opera controls 3%. that (sarcasm) obviously makes IE a better browser (/sarcasm).

Re: Justification request: Silverlight vs. Flex

Padawan — Tue, 06 Jan 2009 22:48:07 GMT

Not listing a comparison to SL is a great deterant and obvious bias implication. Please consider your post and your objectives before stating facts without full evidence.

Re: Re: Justification request: Silverlight vs. Flex

vkj — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:34:27 GMT

I agree that .net is a great programming tool. c# is one of the finest/best programming language. So, for some one who knows .net but can not learn any thing else, siliverlight is the right choice. There are many programmers who are actually just intelligent typist. For them, learning a new programming language is a rocket science. So, if you are among them, and happens to know .net then just use silverlight. You do not have any other option. However, if you are a real programmer and enjoy programming, enjoy learning new language then learn Flex also. By learning Flex, atleast, you will be able to appreciate why it's runtime is on 98% of pc and silverlight is on 2% of pc. Hope this doesn't confuse you.

Re: Justification request: Silverlight vs. Flex

vkj — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 04:31:57 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Justification request: Silverlight vs. Flex

TheSilent — Wed, 12 Nov 2008 13:10:15 GMT

In the SVN the binaries and source code were already available. The new FluorineFx installer was just released so you can download it from www.flourinefx.com

More about silverlight integration at http://blog.fluorinefx.com/

Re: Re: Re: Justification request: Silverlight vs. Flex

kwatts — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 04:12:29 GMT

But what will put an end to this discussion?

-Ken