Hosting and Streaming

Re: Commerical Use

CleverCoder — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:00:19 GMT

I've just started hitting the need to get clarification on legal matters. It pisses me off that companies are so self righteous that they assume a lawyer must get involved with interpreting an EULA. I have a genius idea... how about making the EULA easy to understand?!?! There are way too many money hungry legal "advisors" and attorneys that leech off companies with deep pockets. I know the game. I'm sick of it. And, I hate lawyers because most of them are crocks.

With that said, MS, how about giving us some detailed information (written by someone with a degree in english) that we can use with respect to licensing and legal matters? Off to call MS regarding the licensing of their install logo.. and to find out about redistributing the installer... (hint hint)

-Sean

Re: Commerical Use

tomtaylormsft — Tue, 13 May 2008 02:59:48 GMT

mchlsync:
Thanks a lot. I will wait..

Thanks Michael - we absolutely appreciate the enthusiasm around Silverlight 2 and how anxious people are to start using it more widely. If I could make the development process go any faster, I would. :-)

- Tom

Tom Taylor | Microsoft Silverlight

Re: Commerical Use

mchlSync — Tue, 13 May 2008 02:49:18 GMT

Thanks a lot for your reply. Tom .. I'm a lit bit confused. I will confirm you again.

tomtaylormsft:
Silverlight apps are built upon the Silverlight runtime.

Silverlight control are not build upon the Silverlight runtime? We need to install Silverlight to see Silverlight control, isn't it?

Actually, I'm not arguing with you. I just want to have good understanding about that. I was so surprise to see when people from Xceed said that they are releasing "The world’s first commercially available control" while ComponentOne or etc are still waiting at beta stage. Like you said, Xceed may have the license for that. maybe, C1 may not have the license for that.

Installing Silverlight runtime is something that the user need to do. So, we, the Silverlight developers, don't need to consider about that.

tomtaylormsft:
I cannot give you legal advice. I would just wait until Beta 2 is released, at which point this becomes a moot issue.

Thanks a lot. I will wait..

Re: Commerical Use

tomtaylormsft — Tue, 13 May 2008 02:15:25 GMT

mchlSync:

You are talking about Silverlight runtime. but why you are talking about Silverlight runtime. People outside from Microsoft want to use Silverlight for building application or control.. We are not going to sell that Silverlight runtime.. (btw, Can you sell Silverlight runtime when beta2 is out? )

Silverlight apps are built upon the Silverlight runtime. Accepting the EULA of the Silverlight runtime is a requirement for installation. And no, you absolutely cannot resell the runtime. It is a free product.

I cannot give you legal advice. I would just wait until Beta 2 is released, at which point this becomes a moot issue.

Re: Commerical Use

tomtaylormsft — Tue, 13 May 2008 02:09:31 GMT

Interesting to see what happens to my posts. :-)

I can't comment on what license was granted to Xceed - they may have a commercial license from us, which was granted to a limited number of partners. I also can't say whether our EULA would allow another company to build and sell controls built on Silverlight 2 beta 1. If you think that should apply to you, then you should engage an attorney to advise you on what is or is not permissible.

Re: Commerical Use

mchlSync — Tue, 13 May 2008 02:00:33 GMT

Thanks. But I'm not sure about that.

tomtaylormsft:
The EULA I am talking about refers to the Silverlight runtime.

You are talking about Silverlight runtime. but why you are talking about Silverlight runtime. People who don't work for Microsoft want to use Silverlight for building application or control only.. We are not going to sell that Silverlight runtime.. (btw, Can you sell Silverlight runtime when beta2 is out? )

tomtaylormsft:
the only way to know for sure what applies to you is to have your own lawyer review the EULA.

Well, it's hard.. I don't have my own lawyer and I can't hire a laywer for asking whether I can develop Silverlight website or Silverlight control by using Silverlight 2 beta1.

Actually, I had a few people asking me that they want Silverlight or Flash gallery for their blogs. Of course, I can get only $200 or etc for that.. but I thought I can't use Silverlight 2 beta1 for that.. that's why I didn't accept those small projects at that time... Can I use Silverlight 2 beta1 for that? Can you or other people from Microsoft answer this question? OR, Do I have to hire the laywer for that too?

thanks in advance.

Re: Commerical Use

mchlSync — Tue, 13 May 2008 01:51:31 GMT

mfrklicDRI:
Does this fall in the same category as a commercial application?

It should fall into the same category. Otherwise, it is not fair. I hope Microsoft will have some writer who can write very clearly when they release something next time..

If they put something like "Silverlight 2 beta1 is NOT allowed to use for commercial." when they release, everybody (including non-native English speakers) can easily understand. but now, they wrote long sentence but :(

This guy is also having the same issue.

Re: Commerical Use

tomtaylormsft — Tue, 13 May 2008 01:49:07 GMT

They're not the same thing. The EULA I am talking about refers to the Silverlight runtime. That's different than a control library that's built on top of the Silverlight runtime, which is what Xceed is selling. Since I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on TV, the only way to know for sure what applies to you is to have your own lawyer review the EULA.

Of course, there are commercial sites (e.g. Hard Rock) that are obviously using Silverlight in a commercial context. The reason that they can do this is because specific partners in our early adoper program were granted a commercial go-live license for Silverlight 2 beta 1. The license for beta 2 will allow a much broader set of folks to deploy their sites commercially.

- Tom

Re: Commerical Use

mfrklicDRI — Tue, 13 May 2008 01:27:32 GMT

What about releasing commercial controls for SL2 Beta 1?

Example:

The world’s first commercially available control for Microsoft’s latest promising new technology, Silverlight 2! Xceed Upload for Silverlight

http://xceed.com/Upload_Silverlight_Intro.html

Does this fall in the same category as a commercial application?

Re: Commerical Use

mchlSync — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 01:43:07 GMT

Thanks for your reply, Tom.

Re: Commerical Use

tomtaylormsft — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 01:19:21 GMT

The EULA explains what it can be used for. I don't play a lawyer on TV or in real life, so I can't interpret it for you. :-)

Silverlight 2 beta 2 will have a commerical license, so you can certainly develop & preview the application using beta 1 & then release it when beta 2 comes out.

- Tom

Tom Taylor
Microsoft Silverlight

Re: Commerical Use

mchlSync — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:53:22 GMT

tomtaylormsft:

The license in the current version of Silverlight 2 (beta 1) does not allow for commerical use. This will change for Silverlight Beta 2, and obviously for the final release.

Does it mean we can't use Silverlight to develop for commercial application? even at our own rick? What do you mean by "commerical use"? Yes. we are not gonna sell the silverlight installer anyway. Can I use Silverlight 2 if my client wants me to develop one small media website with silverlight? What if we want to develop our commerical application at our own risk?

Waiting your reply..

Re: Commerical Use

tomtaylormsft — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:29:49 GMT

y_makram:

As I understand, the current release does have a go-live license, so we as developers can publish our content, but still does not have a commercial go-live license yet.

Correct. Silverlight 2 beta 2 will have a broad commercial go-live license.

- Tom

Tom Taylor
Microsoft Silverlight

Re: Commerical Use

haagel — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:24:36 GMT

tomtaylormsft:
quick correction: Silverlight includes a license - you agree to it when you install the runtime. What I think you're stating is that there is no cost to this license. That is correct - Silverlight is a free product.

Yes, that is what I meant. My bad...

Re: Commerical Use

y_makram — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:23:40 GMT

As I understand, the current release does have a go-live license, so we as developers can publish our content, but still does not have a commercial go-live license yet.