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Home Forums Data and Service-Oriented Development WCF RIA Services Plan for RIA Services drops at PDC 2009 / drops for VS 2010 Beta2
39 replies. Latest Post by monalisa1 on November 30, 2009.
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Dinesh ...
Member
112 points
62 Posts
10-19-2009 7:48 PM |
Now that Visual Studio 2010 / .NET 4 beta2 is out for MSDN subscribers, I got a few questions. This has probably been covered elsewhere but I am listing it here separately.
Our goal is to provide you RIA Services drops at PDC that cover the following two combinations:
1. Beta: this will support VS 2008, .NET 3.5 SP1. Those who want to go live should be using this drop.
2. Very early preview: this will support VS 2010, .NET 4 beta2. This is NOT for going live - just for test driving and giving us feedback. This will have a superset of the features of #1 above (e.g. inheritance, better tooling) - many of them hot off the developers' machines without having withstood all the "quality gates".
Separately, we have two RIA Services talks planned - Brad Abrams will be doing an overview and I will be doing a deep dive talk (400 level) that builds on the overview.
After PDC, we will be taking the VS 2010 / .NET 4 drop and working further on fundamentals to take it to RTW.
Thanks.
Dinesh
mchlsync
Star
14618 points
2,739 Posts
10-19-2009 9:25 PM |
Great.. Thanks for informing us..
MarkMon...
Contributor
7137 points
1,422 Posts
10-20-2009 3:01 AM |
Thanks Dinesh,
This is great information. Last week I did a talk on Silverlight, covering some parts of RIA as well. I guessed the future for RIA would look similar to what you tell us.
BenHayat
Participant
1066 points
644 Posts
10-20-2009 9:20 AM |
Excellent plan of execution. This provides us a solid Go-Live version to get an early version out (of our products) and this will give time to the team for their phase II. Thanks and talk to you Friday!
Sergey....
12286 points
2,165 Posts
10-20-2009 1:03 PM |
Thanks for information.
meidianto
734 points
150 Posts
10-20-2009 1:15 PM |
Thanks Dinesh, I was wondering about it and found the answer here.
IT_Lackey
526 points
129 Posts
10-20-2009 9:13 PM |
Will these two versions be able to run side by side? This way we can develop for prodcution in 2008, while testing out the 2010 beta version.
EverettLiu
84 points
75 Posts
10-20-2009 9:47 PM |
Can it work with VS2010 beta2 + .NET 3.5 sp1?
thanks
10-21-2009 12:02 AM |
@Everett,
You will have to pick one of the two - either RTM combo (VS 2008, .NET 3.5 SP1) or the beta2 combo and use the applicable drop. Mix and match while interesting are not supported to keep the matrix sane for us and for users.
@IT_Lackey
Along the same lines, you would need to use a VM to try both RIA Services drops on the same machine. They are not side-by-side.
10-21-2009 9:36 AM |
Thanks! VPC is totally worth the value this will be providing and the experince of using the vNext drop. Even more so on Win7 ;)
Thanks again for keeping us informed!
shan_mc...
33 points
42 Posts
10-21-2009 11:47 AM |
The RIA drops will not work side-by-side? That doesn't make any sense. All the other APIs I have work side-by-side, and I am not aware of anything extra special in RIA that would dictate that we can't use them side-by-side. Not having side-by-side support will be a big stumbling block for adoption as people are looking at strategies for moving from .Net 3.5 to .Net 4.0. Most of us cannot switch everything over all at once and need to continue to support older frameworks (and by older I am only thinking of .net 3.5 SP1). Every time an SDK doesn't support side-by-side, it puts up yet another barrier for .Net adoption. I hope that the team can put some effort into resolving this issue.
Shan
FuryDia...
All-Star
15706 points
2,699 Posts
10-21-2009 11:51 AM |
Thanks Dinesh for the information.
ColinBlair
15153 points
2,660 Posts
10-21-2009 12:24 PM |
shan_mcarthur@spamcop.net:The RIA drops will not work side-by-side? That doesn't make any sense.
I think that is a good point long term Shan, if RIA Services goes to release with a .Net 3.5 version and a .Net 4.0 version then being able to have both installed at the same time would be a good idea. However, what is really, really important to understand (and I forsee myself harping on this over and over again in the future) is that the 4.0 drop is not meant to be used for any production coding. We are pretty much getting a raw, current version off the developers machine edition of RIA Services. The kind of internal build that only Microsoft employees and insiders get to play with. It probably doesn't work side by side with the go live 3.5/VS2008 only drop because they share the same installer, the same DLL versions, and the same file locations.
I would hope that the eventual stable go-live version of RIA Services for VS2010 will co-exist with the VS2008 version and it is important that we let Microsoft know that but we need to be careful not to read too much into what the VS2010 drop of RIA Services does or does not do. Remember that they are releasing it to us to start the conversation, not to end it.
10-21-2009 12:36 PM |
I hope that they can cross that bridge sooner than later. For me, I cannot use the July CTP with VS2010, even compiling for .Net 3.5 because of some versioning issues with the DataAnnotations DLL (version 99.0.0.0) , which means that RIA is holding up my VS2010 adoption. I have compensated by moving my RIA code to a different assembly so that I can continue to use VS2010 without RIA, but I REALLY would like to use RIA soon with VS2010. I hope that the updated 3.5SP1 and .Net 4.0 drops comes soon, and they both install fine side-by-side with each other.
A continuous build server would solve the issues that are being seen here. We shouldn't be getting code straight from a dev's workstation - it should come through a build server, and the project should be architected from the beginning to use version numbers and allow for side-by-side installations. I do that with my own product and I know that it works.
10-21-2009 1:05 PM |
I am sure they aren't literally pulling it from one of their developer workstations, it is just an expression.
10-21-2009 1:23 PM |
Shan, I think you're jumping to too many conclusions too early. Since RIA started as CTP1, the team has been very conscious of developers' position and they take that very seriously. These quick judgments could easily create confusions for other developers on the forum, which is unnecessary. There are many moving parts involved in relation to .Net 4, VS10 and WCF 4.0 V.S. the current version. I hope this doesn't sound as a criticism, but we need to let the team follow their plan.
10-21-2009 8:44 PM |
I want to use VS 2010 beta2(go live license) and .NET 3.5sp1(Stable Edition) to develop silverlight application
it is too bad that cannot use RIA service with them!
harrypf...
24 points
8 Posts
10-22-2009 9:57 AM |
I have also played around with Visual Studio 2010 Beta 2 and it is sofar a great expierence, responsive and no big issues. I am really looking forward to have .NET Ria Services available for this plattform as soon as development allows, I don't want go back to 2008 ;-)
CodeFuzion
40 points
20 Posts
10-22-2009 2:08 PM |
EverettLiu: I want to use VS 2010 beta2(go live license) and .NET 3.5sp1(Stable Edition) to develop silverlight application it is too bad that cannot use RIA service with them!
I agree with Everett Liu. I dont care about the side by side installation, since we are commited to finishing up a product using the July 09 RIA services "Go-Live" version and are having great success with it. I just want to utilize it in VS2010 beta 2 so that I get the benefit of the Designer and Databinding features, that I have to use Blend for now (which I do not like to use). This way I get to help microsoft test VS 2010 and get my feet wet with its great new features, at the same time get less gray hairs.
Please tell me you are planning on having an updated RIA Services for .NET 3.5 sp1 that installs on VS 2010 also, not just vs 2008. I cannot see any great excuse for this not taking place. I understand the side-by-side .NET 3.5 and .NET 4.0 issue, however, especially if you are using the same namespace and dlls. But the former case is un-excusable, especially for trying to get developers to test out VS 2010 and drive up Silverlight adoption.
Corey
figuerres
1260 points
332 Posts
10-24-2009 5:10 PM |
I did a serach just now on the froum and this was not found.
google found it.
why is this not a sticky ?
Helen W
189 points
132 Posts
10-26-2009 11:19 AM |
Dinesh Kulkarni: Our goal is to provide you RIA Services drops at PDC that cover the following two combinations: 1. Beta: this will support VS 2008, .NET 3.5 SP1. Those who want to go live should be using this drop.
Does this version of RIA Services work in a hosting environment with Partial Trust?
Thx
Helen
Jay_Harlow
54 points
12 Posts
10-26-2009 2:50 PM |
Cool!
Nice to hear...
Waiting anxiously!
Thanks
Jay
davidez...
6092 points
921 Posts
10-27-2009 3:35 PM |
Thanks, great info.
allith
4 points
2 Posts
10-28-2009 12:24 PM |
Can you give us an eta on the Beta for VS 2008 SP1 ?
thanks, Alli
10-28-2009 12:31 PM |
allith: Can you give us an eta on the Beta for VS 2008 SP1 ? thanks, Alli
Please re-read the original post.
poorans...
10-29-2009 12:22 AM |
So, even if we have RIA services drop at PDC.. does it mean, it is not the actual release.. its a preview and we have to wait till VS2010 release for actual release of RIA?
10-29-2009 11:58 AM |
allith:Can you give us an eta on the Beta for VS 2008 SP1 ?
Alli, the PDC is scheduled for Nov 17 -- 19 in LA. I guess that is when this stuff will become available.
hth
moravsky
1184 points
218 Posts
10-29-2009 3:47 PM |
pooranstarmark:So, even if we have RIA services drop at PDC.. does it mean, it is not the actual release.. its a preview and we have to wait till VS2010 release for actual release of RIA?
As Dinesh said, the PDC drop is not the final version. Also there has not been an official announcement of the final version release date, so VS2010 date is just a speculation.
10-29-2009 7:16 PM |
For RTW, our focus will be on .NET 4 and Visual Studio 2010 (RTM versions). We are still evaluating if / how RIA Services can be supported on .NET 3.5 SP1. We are looking for more feedback to make a better tradeoff. On the one hand, we realize that many of you would like to continue to use .NET 3.5 SP1 for a while. On the other, many of you are eager for new features that are in .NET 4 because they address key requests such as broad partial trust support, better EF capabilities etc. Further, 3.5 SP1 support becomes a very expensive item for design, implementation and QA as we start using .NET 4. Here, we would love to hear the timeframe you have in mind for .NET 4 adoption. Support for Visual Studio 2008 is not planned beyond PDC. If we decide to support 3.5 SP1, it would be through Visual Studio 2010 multi-targeting. We are planning an exciting set of new tooling features that rely on Visual Studio 2010 capabilities and we will not be able to invest further in maintaining two sets of tools. Medium trust is another area of considerable interest. Our goal here is to support medium trust when we RTW. We are currently working through the technical issues involved in enabling medium trust. Thanks. Dinesh
For RTW, our focus will be on .NET 4 and Visual Studio 2010 (RTM versions). We are still evaluating if / how RIA Services can be supported on .NET 3.5 SP1. We are looking for more feedback to make a better tradeoff. On the one hand, we realize that many of you would like to continue to use .NET 3.5 SP1 for a while. On the other, many of you are eager for new features that are in .NET 4 because they address key requests such as broad partial trust support, better EF capabilities etc. Further, 3.5 SP1 support becomes a very expensive item for design, implementation and QA as we start using .NET 4. Here, we would love to hear the timeframe you have in mind for .NET 4 adoption.
Support for Visual Studio 2008 is not planned beyond PDC. If we decide to support 3.5 SP1, it would be through Visual Studio 2010 multi-targeting. We are planning an exciting set of new tooling features that rely on Visual Studio 2010 capabilities and we will not be able to invest further in maintaining two sets of tools.
Medium trust is another area of considerable interest. Our goal here is to support medium trust when we RTW. We are currently working through the technical issues involved in enabling medium trust.
10-29-2009 9:09 PM |
Hi Dinesh,
I agree there will be a lot of QA effort and we know that RIA services is a preview still. So, ideally everybody expects it to go live with 4.0 and no 3.5sp1 support makes sense too.
Dinesh Kulkarni:Support for Visual Studio 2008 is not planned beyond PDC. If we decide to support 3.5 SP1, it would be through Visual Studio 2010 multi-targeting. We are planning an exciting set of new tooling features that rely on Visual Studio 2010 capabilities and we will not be able to invest further in maintaining two sets of tools.
Adoption of 2010/4.0 takes atleast 3-6 months after the release. So even releasing a final beta of RIA services for VS2008 [3.5sp1] would be good. you can trade off some design capabilities like you have done for SL3 on VS2008. We are used to designing in Blend now and we totally agree with such adjustments.
Pooran
10-30-2009 2:03 AM |
We are targeting VS2010/V4. We will not continue to use .NET RIA Services on .NET3.5/SP1...
monalisa1
10 points
3 Posts
11-25-2009 7:06 AM |
Dinesh Kulkarni:Now that Visual Studio 2010 / .NET 4 beta2 is out for MSDN subscribers, I got a few questions. This has probably been covered elsewhere but I am listing it here separately.
Hello Dinesh:
Saw your video from PDC. A very informative one. Thanks a lot for that. Unfortunately, I am not seeing the domain data services as Data Sources in my Data Source Panel - Running with VS 2010 Beta 2, SL 4 SDK, latest RIA - The projects build successfully but I just do not get the data sources. Any thoughts on this would be of great help. I really want to get this working. Thank You.
11-25-2009 8:54 AM |
Another poster found the solution for this bug: Do NOT save your datamodel before using the wizard to add a Domain Service Class.
11-25-2009 12:52 PM |
Helen W:Another poster found the solution for this bug: Do NOT save your datamodel before using the wizard to add a Domain Service Class. hth Helen
11-28-2009 7:35 PM |
Sathyan, this is the way I've been able to get it to work.
So far this has worked reliably for me. I have no idea why, and I do not know what the ramifications of this bug are. For example, what happens if you change the model and rebuild?
11-28-2009 11:53 PM |
Also, most people do not have this bug which makes me think the bug is in some third party utility.
11-29-2009 8:23 AM |
Such as? I'm not using any 3rd party utilities, unless you include libraries such as the Silverlight toolkit.
11-29-2009 9:00 AM |
Who knows, it could be your virus scanner, it could be the current locaiton of the moon. I have a completely different set of problems with the EDMX editor then you do, I think it randomly chooses a different set of bugs for each machine. I can never reopen an EDMX after closing it unless I reopen it in the code editor first. I have seen other people here who have to completely redo their model every time they make a change. The point is, when working around bugs with Entity Framework there are no absolutes as everyone has different things that work on their particular machine.
11-29-2009 9:12 AM |
I don't doubt that there are bugs in the entity framework, or that the phase of the moon can cause undocumented features to manifest themselves. In this case, I also get the bug using Linq2SQL so it probably cannot be laid at the feet of the EF. The virus scanner? That's another kettle of fish altogether
IAC I hope that my method helps other folks who run into this particular hitch.
11-30-2009 12:24 AM |
Actually my problem is not with the Data Services - Dat Services how up the tables from EF after building the project. My problem is that after getting the Data Services compile in the web project, I am not seeing them as data sources in the Silver Light project's View Data Sources Panel - Anyone had this issue thus far?
Plan for RIA Services drops at PDC 2009 / drops for VS 2010 Beta2